Curse

Bankai · Mar 28, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

A number of folks here are strongly suggesting interrupting Aegis to break the chain as the primary counter. An important thing to note here is that a monk using Aegis can be farther behind that backline than normal and still cast it effectively. To make a comparison, it's like Spirit-Spamming. While the spirits take 3-5 seconds to cast each, they are able to be out range enough to still be essentially immune to interrupts. We all know what happened to Shelter and Boon of Creation.

While I don't think it deserves a nerf that heavy, it's definitely possible.

Aegis is meta. It's not invincible, but it is extremely effective against all flavours of melee pressure. It synergizes well with Spirit and Pain of Failure, and stacking with Reckless Haste and Blurred Vision makes attacking characters a liability. But you all know that.

So, how do we fix it?

There are plenty of ideas around here, and some are pretty good. I think the best way to fix the skill is to buff existing counters, or take away the unique unfair advantage that the skill gives, or both. Here's my take:

Aegis
10/2/30
Enchantment Spell. For 1...11 seconds, all party members within Earshot have a 50% chance to block attacks.

Lower the cost and the GoLE advantage shrinks. Make it earshot and the monk is now in range for interruption. This strategy can be used for many other skills. Knock the cost down 5 or 10 energy or buff the skill, and make the skill "in earshot" so the person who buffs the team has to be part of it.

Ignore these next suggestions at your liesure.

Heal Party - reduce cost to 10, increase recharge to 5.
Light of Deliverance - lower cast time to 3/4

And Spirit Spammers:
Shelter - Range "in Earshot" to spirit, Reduce cost to 15, reduce cast time to 3 seconds
Union - Range "in Earshot" to spirit, Reduce cost to 10
Displacement - Range "in Earshot" to spirit, Reduce damage taken by spirit from 60 to 45
Boon of Creation - Buff back to old values

How's that?

That's great.

And to the comment of r2 wammos: I believe that was our match against iPod, though I'm not too sure.

HolyHawk · Mar 29, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Honestely, until Soul Reaping is changed, I don't want to see any changes that encourage spirit use. The proposed aegis change to earshot seems interesting though.

pah01 · Mar 29, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

How is it possible that people dont understand that the problem is glyph of lesser energy?

Joe

Xenex Xclame · Mar 29, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Because that is not the problem?

pah01 · Mar 29, 2007, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Yes it is.

The problem right now is you get a chain aegis for free.

This fact shouldnt require explaining.

GG

elektra_lucia · Mar 29, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

GoLe makes it obvious when someone is going to cast aegis.

Quote:

The problem right now is you get a chain aegis for free.

No you don't. If you were running channeling instead of GoLE, you'd be getting a lot of energy from the five energy spells. So it's not free, you just cripple something else.

Thomas.knbk · Mar 29, 2007, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

The problem right now is you get a chain aegis for free.

Considering how popular physicals are atm, Aegis would undoubtly still be worth it if it cost 15 energy. Basically Aegis > Pressure. That's worth 15 energy imo.

MAdnRisKy · Mar 30, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

one minute grenth makes people scream, the next its aegis.

whats the matter? got too used to melee training?

twicky_kid · Mar 30, 2007, 01:55 AM // 01:55

[skill]Griffon's Sweep[/skill]

[skill]Leviathan's Sweep[/skill]

Those 2 skills will give aegis teams pure hell. If you hit you do more dmg. If its blocked your target is KD and deal dmg. Its a win win. Stop complaining about a skill and learn to work around it.

Thomas.knbk · Mar 30, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

pure hell? they're worse than bloody irresistable blow

Bankai · Mar 30, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

[skill]Griffon's Sweep[/skill]

[skill]Leviathan's Sweep[/skill]

Those 2 skills will give aegis teams pure hell. If you hit you do more dmg. If its blocked your target is KD and deal dmg. Its a win win. Stop complaining about a skill and learn to work around it.

How can you deal damage if your target still blocks 50% of the time?

Patccmoi · Mar 30, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

[skill]Griffon's Sweep[/skill]

[skill]Leviathan's Sweep[/skill]

Those 2 skills will give aegis teams pure hell. If you hit you do more dmg. If its blocked your target is KD and deal dmg. Its a win win. Stop complaining about a skill and learn to work around it.

That's like people saying that Irresistible Blow owns against Aegis. They don't realize though that you still build adren at half the speed and that while IB has 50% chance to knock your target, your Hammer Bash/other kd are also reduced to 50% chance to knock. So in the end you knock a lot less often than if they didn't have Aegis.

I mean, the skills aren't that bad, but they're hardly a counter and they won't actually let you pressure through Aegis. Pressuring through Aegis requires either something like elite enchant removal (OoA, Corrupt Enchant, HEV is also surprisingly efficient against teams also using some hexes which is common these days) or managing to interrupt it. Out of that, you can't actually pressure through, you have to spike.

Shmanka · Mar 30, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Those 2 skills will give aegis teams pure hell.

Wow, /plzmakemoviesabouthow1337uare

How about this. I bring Guardian+Aegis you bring those two skills we will 1v1 and lets see who's NPC's live at VoD?

The more we actually debate about how overpowered either GoLE or Aegis is the more posts like this we are going to get and the more likely ANet will pay attention to the imbalance and just completely screw over the decency both skills can retain.

There should not be a reason as to why a team with 2 warriors need to bring those skills in order to stop "blocking 24/7" if the skill could not be blocked, you would have a half-arsed argument, but at this moment just going through pages and pages of debate is not worth anyones reading time.

I do not think GoLE is the problem, and I do not think Aegis is exactly the problem. I think in combination they are too powerful, and because of this one of these skills at the end of the skill test update will be thrown into the useless bin. If you nerf Aegis. there is no point for mid line casters to use prot anymore as a secondary, if you nerf GoLE then builds become static for all spellcasters again. If they just made enchantment removal more powerful this debate would have never happened.

Xenex Xclame · Mar 30, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

If they just made enchantment removal more powerful this debate would have never happened.

I agree.

123456

Bankai · Mar 31, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Aegis
<fill in normal description>. This spell's energy cost cannot be lowered.

Riotgear · Mar 31, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

If they just made enchantment removal more powerful this debate would have never happened.

A skill tailor-made to strip Aegis was added, a couple were added with extremely short cooldowns, what more do you want?

Thom Bangalter · Mar 31, 2007, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

A skill tailor-made to strip Aegis was added, a couple were added with extremely short cooldowns, what more do you want?

a nerf to aegis so I don't have to bring crap like mirror of disenchantment.

Skye Marin · Mar 31, 2007, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

A skill tailor-made to strip Aegis was added, a couple were added with extremely short cooldowns, what more do you want?

A buff to said skill so that I dont have to spend 25 energy every 15 seconds for a chance to undo the protection the other team put up, well behind enemy lines, for free.

Make Aegis enchant "In earshot" and it will become more susceptible to interrupts, and all will be well.

Div · Mar 31, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

A lot of people seem to be in favor of making aegis in earshot. I don't think it's going to work.

First, Aegis is not "free" as many people claim it is. Having GoLE in combination with aegis makes it really good, but it's still not free. Also, if the target has to be within earshot, and a monk is in the backline, only the backlines and some midlines are able to receive the benefit. The earshot works well for paragons because they are able to be in the center of a group, making earshot work for most of the team, but because a monk has 60 armor and is generally in the back, making the skill earshot is going to devastate it. Forcing a monk to run up to your midlines to cast aegis is just plain stupid.

Just a note: iPod isn't very good at HA :P

Patccmoi · Mar 31, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

A lot of people seem to be in favor of making aegis in earshot. I don't think it's going to work.

First, Aegis is not "free" as many people claim it is. Having GoLE in combination with aegis makes it really good, but it's still not free. Also, if the target has to be within earshot, and a monk is in the backline, only the backlines and some midlines are able to receive the benefit. The earshot works well for paragons because they are able to be in the center of a group, making earshot work for most of the team, but because a monk has 60 armor and is generally in the back, making the skill earshot is going to devastate it. Forcing a monk to run up to your midlines to cast aegis is just plain stupid.

Just a note: iPod isn't very good at HA :P

And is your team going to suffer greatly because your warriors aren't in Aegis? What about if they want protection THEY take a step back so that your monks are in range instead of your monks rushing forward? Ofc it's likely a bad idea to do that quite often, but i don't actually see why it's so important to have your frontline covered by Aegis. A frontline is supposed to be able to sustain some damage without prot, that's why they're the frontline...

Imo a change to Earshot would be pretty good, it could even potentially be reduced to 10E (best would be like 10E, if more than 4 people were affected you lose 5E). I'd also like to see LoD reduced to Earshot BUT reducing cast time to .75s.